Achieving your dreams is possible with hard work. We built WorthPointe with that principle in mind. In his latest podcast, Orange County financial advisor John Chapman brings you guidance on how to scale your career, from wherever you are, from an industry expert. Whether you’re looking for a job or firmly committed to your current career, Chris Wood, managing director of theRecruitingCollective, has some great advice for millennials to build the career they dream of.

Do you know the difference between the corporate ladder and a corporate lattice? You’ll learn why it matters,  as well as how to use your resume, optimize your LinkedIn and build your network to skyrocket your career. Take a listen here. 

Audio Transcription:

Announcer: (00:00)
Welcome to the John Chapman Show, where we talk about the path of a wealthy millennial, uncovering the truth about building and protecting your nest egg. Join us on this journey as we hear the stories of millennials and mentors alike to help you plan, manage, and protect your wealth. John is an employee of WorthPoint LLC. All opinions expressed by John and podcast guests are solely their own opinion, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of WorthPoint. This podcast should not be relied upon for investment decisions, and is for informational purposes only.

John Chapman: (00:29)
Hey, everyone. John Chapman here, thanks for joining us for another podcast. Today our guest is Chris Wood, a good friend of mine. He runs his own recruiting and staffing company called The Recruiting Collective. I wanted to have Chris on today to share the perspective of a recruiter for those of us who might be looking at changing jobs, either near term or just eventually for some career advancement. Obviously, it’s a different environment out there when you think about advancing your career. It’s no longer spend 30 years at the same company and just climb up the corporate ladder. So, I wanted Chris to share, which he does in today’s episode, a lot about how to just change your thoughts around your job changes, and making sure that you can communicate if you are changing jobs more, the reason behind those things.

John Chapman: (01:23)
He talks about just sort of the leap frog approach that people can take, and how to most effectively use it. We also dive into LinkedIn and resumes, and he shares some super helpful thoughts about how to think about polishing a resume, making it targeted, using LinkedIn to expand on your network. So, whether or not you’re changing jobs today or plan to in the future, super helpful episode. I hope you get a ton out of it. With that, let’s bring on Chris.

John Chapman: (01:51)
Hey, Chris Wood. Thanks so much for being here today, man.

Chris Wood: (01:54)
Thanks, John. Super excited to be here.

John Chapman: (01:57)
I want you to share with everybody a little bit about where you grew up, and what you’re involved in today.

Chris Wood: (02:03)
Okay. Well, I actually traveled every three or four years. My dad moved me around the country, but my formidable years in high school, I grew up outside of Chicago. I was there after high school. I decided I wanted to live somewhere warm and I had to get out of Chicago. [inaudible 00:02:19].

John Chapman: (02:19)
I don’t blame you. No polar vortex.

Chris Wood: (02:23)
No polar vortex. No windy city anymore. Sunshine and beach.

John Chapman: (02:28)
There you go. Did you have any… so why California? You were in San Diego, right? Is that where you went to school?

Chris Wood: (02:33)
I went to San Diego State. Studied economics. They had a really good business program. And it was one of three schools that were in warm conditions, so I ended up going to San Diego. My dad lived out here.

John Chapman: (02:43)
Oh, got it. Okay that helps to narrow it down. So when you were in school, you studied economics, but you’re in sort of the recruiting business now. So what did you initially intend to have as your first career coming out of school?

Chris Wood: (02:57)
Well, I thought I’d be some sort of consultant for Price Waterhouse Coopers or a sales rep or CB Richard Ellis-

John Chapman: (03:05)
[inaudible 00:03:05].

Chris Wood: (03:06)
I got out and I was still working my college jobs, which were not glamorous. And I didn’t really know what to do. And a friend of mine in Orange County, California called me and said, “Hey, I heard you’re out of school. I’m hiring for recruiters. Would you be interested?” And my first question was, “What’s recruiting?”

John Chapman: (03:22)
From your perspective, what is recruiting?

Chris Wood: (03:24)
Oh, there’s tons of different names for it. Cat herder is one of them.

John Chapman: (03:29)
Of course.

Chris Wood: (03:30)
It’s something people say. But no, essentially, it’s like a broker. I foremost help corporations find people necessary to get [inaudible 00:03:38] their goals. Now the second half, I work with individuals seeking employment to help them find their careers. So, I have to find a match between a person looking, as well as the corporation hiring.

John Chapman: (03:49)
Got it. You explained it well. And understanding it as a broker. And more so, I guess I was only looking at it from one side of the equation, which is helping an employee with their goals. But really, you’re helping a company, you’re helping an employer reach whatever goals they need, too. So they have to equally reach out to you. So do you find that it’s more one sided or now are you primarily working with institutions, and then seeking individuals or vice versa?

Chris Wood: (04:13)
Oh no, it’s totally both. In order to do well in recruiting, and actually being an efficient recruiter, you have to know both what the corporation wants, and that’s great if I know what they want. But if I’m calling people blindly asking them to work at this job and know nothing about their career goals, or personal goals, there’s a good chance I won’t make a good match. So even though the corporations are the ones that, technically, employ me, the individual seeking, whereas, their biggest thing is I need to know what they are looking for to make it successful-

John Chapman: (04:42)
Yeah. Super. That makes me think of all of these dynamics and maybe that’s some of the other things that we can get into later. So you started this job right out of school and you moved up to Orange County, so how many years have you been involved in recruiting then?

Chris Wood: (04:56)
I began my recruiting career in 2006, so going on my 13th year.

John Chapman: (05:01)
Wow, awesome. That’s so cool. And right in time for a recession, right? You’re 2006 and then ’08 happens, so what was life like as a recruiter when unemployment was double digits?

Chris Wood: (05:15)
Oh wow, that’s a really good question. That’s actually where I fully started to appreciate the recruiting role. You know, my first tow years in the company, I was just coming to work, reporting to my manager, didn’t know what I was doing. I was just head down, hustling, trying to figure out what my path was. And then, I’m thinking, “Okay, how can I move up in the company. What’s the next step?” You know, young, ambitious, career driven and all of a sudden, I’m pursuing account management and sales. And then, February 2009, we had a huge crash and everyone of our customers is laying off. And recruiters can’t recruit without customers that have job opportunities.

John Chapman: (05:53)
Right.

Chris Wood: (05:54)
I know, right? So everyone’s kind of scared. We’re like, “Uh, we just went from a $16 million a week corporation to a $12 million a week corporation. What is that going to do for us?”

John Chapman: (06:03)
Wow.

Chris Wood: (06:03)
In the company’s, I think, 25 years at the time, in that aspect of their business, they had only the 2nd layoff ever. They laid off about probably 20% of our workforce. So that for me, I just sit there and go, “Wow.” I’d never experienced a layoff. I had no idea. And then it became really interesting when all day long, instead of me looking for people for corporations, I had hundreds of people walking in off the street every day begging me to help them find a job. Because they were foreclosing their home, they couldn’t provide food. And so, for me, [crosstalk 00:06:38]. I really appreciated being employed.

John Chapman: (06:42)
Oh my gosh. I never had appreciated that. Never could understand it having not gone through what you have. Just didn’t understand that. What a crazy thing that people would be coming to you, and then sharing the reality that, “I want to make good on my mortgage payment, so get me a fricken job, man.”

Chris Wood: (07:01)
Yeah, and you’re just like, “Oh my gosh, like I would love to help you, but I can’t.” And so it’s a very defeating feeling and then, at the same time, you’re just kind of like, “I have grown men my father’s age asking me for help. And I’m 25, what are they doing?” It was tough. It was really tough.

John Chapman: (07:18)
Yeah.

Chris Wood: (07:18)
But it was good to understand, and it really helped me grow as a person to see the longevity of your career, knowing that there’s going to be ups and downs.

John Chapman: (07:27)
What do you mean by that? What do you mean by that?

Chris Wood: (07:29)
Well, for a lot of these individuals they had spent their life in a career role with a company. With a company that had been there for 30 years. It was the traditional Baby Boomer. You get hired at a company out of college, or if you went to college, you retire in your 60’s and you get your gold watch, and you watch your kid grow up. And this was the first time that wasn’t happening. People were losing their retirement. They were losing their… operations were moving overseas. And so, now there were roles that they could handle. So they had to step back, and really, maybe, if they were a manager, go back to a lead role. Or a affable person role just to pay the bills.

John Chapman: (08:03)
Crazy. Uh man, super tough.

Chris Wood: (08:05)
Yeah.

John Chapman: (08:06)
Way to just be smacked in the face with reality as a 25 year old. And then come to grips with sort of the arch of people’s career and how it’s not… you know, it’s just different from today where you’re not going to spend 20 or 30 years at the same employer.

Chris Wood: (08:23)
Oh, I know. It’s not even remotely close to that anymore. And all of it has to do, I think, with that past Great Recession. Either a lack of trust on a corporate side for individuals, or just because they want now to have more control over their life. You know, realizing they gave 30 years to a corporation that cut them in a downturn. Now it’s like, “What do I do to stay afloat and take care of my family?”

John Chapman: (08:46)
Yeah. So really interesting. I guess, I appreciate you sharing that perspective of when this job became real. So, I mean, going through that 2008, 2009 experience, would you say that it was then that you turned this from just a nine to five job into a true career that you felt called into? Was there anything else that was the light bulb moment looking back on it now where you feel like, “Yes, I’m going to commit to this 110%?”

Chris Wood: (09:12)
Yeah, it was really interesting. It gave me perspective when I was looking at the individuals who had gone to school, done all the right things, worked their way up in their career, and they found themselves in hard times. I found out that in a down economy, recruiters are a top 10 job to have. Up and down. It doesn’t matter if it’s a great economy, companies need you. If it’s a down economy, people need you. And so, it gave me a sense of security, but also, opportunity to know that my job can shift back and forth, and I have that flexibility to navigate both sides of the spectrum. And so, I got more interested in becoming more professional at it.

John Chapman: (09:49)
I like that. That’s super cool. And that makes me think, fast forward 10 years, or where we are today in 2019 and we’ve got supposedly record low unemployment, so I want to get to what you see as boots on the ground and how that impacts the dynamic between hiring and so forth. But before we get into that, I want to hit on some things. For all the people listening, whether or not they’re currently changing jobs or may want to in the future, let’s just break down some really tangible things that we can wrap our minds around. What should… let’s say you’re working at a corporate job and you want to take the next step in your career, you don’t think it’s going to happen at your current company because there’s too many people, or whatever reason, so you feel like in order to make that next leap up you have to change jobs. So if we start from that frame point, is that even a good place to start or which-

Chris Wood: (10:42)
That’s actually a good place to start.

John Chapman: (10:42)
What should he or she be thinking about at this moment?

Chris Wood: (10:45)
So, back in the day, before the Great Recession, if you will, it was climbing the corporate ladder. That was the way you handled your career. You got on with a good company, then you worked your way up. That is no longer the scenario. It is corporate lattice. How can I gain as much great experience to make myself more well-rounded so I can handle a multitude of different roles, change direction, pivot when I need to, not run into a scenario that you had back [inaudible 00:11:11]. It’s very interesting, corporate ladder, corporate lattice. So a lot of times today what people are doing is in order to move up in the company… or not in the company, in their career, is to actually leapfrog from company to company. And that used to be frowned upon, because job [inaudible 00:11:25] was so important. Now, anyone who’s hiring, they don’t care if you have a new job every year as long as you can explain, from a business or career standpoint, why you did it. If it makes sense and you can explain it, then you’re fine.

Chris Wood: (11:37)
So if you want to get exposure and move up in your career, leapfrog from company to company is totally okay now.

John Chapman: (11:43)
So, I want to pause there for a second, because I’m thinking about trying to… and I really have no personal experience on this, but if I’m working at… I want to say an employer name, but just say an employer that everyone knows, and I’m a hiring manager there, and we’re adding a ton of people, I would ignorantly assume that if I see a resume and there’s six different employers in the past 10 years, is there a red flag happening there? Maybe yes, maybe no. So you’re saying that so long as it’s justified it’s not that big of a deal?

Chris Wood: (12:18)
No, no.

John Chapman: (12:18)
What else is the hiring manager at this super large company concerned about?

Chris Wood: (12:23)
No, for sure. They are looking at someone to say, “Okay, if I’m hiring this person,” they have to analyze why are they hiring them. Do they need them for three to five years? Because the most antiquated question in a job interview today is where do you see yourself in [inaudible 00:12:37].

John Chapman: (12:37)
Okay.

Chris Wood: (12:38)
It’s where do you see yourself in 12 months? That’s how it looks. There’s people pivoting. There’s so much opportunity. And with today’s technology and the landscape of corporate America, it’s not about what you’re going to do five years from now, it’s about what you’re going to do in the next 12-24 months. Even if you hire them into your team, there’s a good chance that this person may move to a different department or may move up in the company or leapfrog to another company, again. It’s a natural progression. It’s not a rare thing. It’s what you are actually seeing more commonly now. So that’s why most managers probably won’t assume that.

John Chapman: (13:08)
Does that not scare a hiring manager or make them skeptical? Wouldn’t it be just super expensive for companies to have to deal with that amount of turnover?

Chris Wood: (13:17)
Yes and no. Yes, expensive if you’re going to burn through people over and over and over again in a short amount of time. However, if you don’t hire someone, because you’re reluctant to pull the trigger, how much money are you losing by not being able to accomplish your goals?

John Chapman: (13:30)
Yeah, okay. That’s fair. That’s fair. So let’s… I guess going back to somebody that’s trying to… what’s the terminology that you used, lattice?

Chris Wood: (13:39)
Yeah. Corporate lattice.

John Chapman: (13:43)
I’m not sure if I fully understand what you mean by that lattice. How do yo spell it?

Chris Wood: (13:47)
So a lot of times, if you’re looking at lattice… like a vine goes across sideways opposed to vertical?

John Chapman: (13:54)
Got you, okay.

Chris Wood: (13:55)
The ladder is coming straight up, going up, how you get to the CEO level as fast as possible or the next level of leadership. Lattice is, “You know what? I’m in HR right now, um, there’s a really great, an interesting opening over in product development and in my background, you know, I’ve done projects here in HR, but I probably could get more exposure there.” And so, they make a pivot from their HR career and go over to project management. And then two years later, a supervisory role in HR opens up, but now that they have the exposure from that department, they’re actually more qualified than their counterpart, who is just in HR.

John Chapman: (14:26)
Super, super interesting.

Chris Wood: (14:28)
Yeah.

John Chapman: (14:28)
So one of the other things that comes up, makes me think about, is resumes. I guess I hear that… what sort of methodology for a good resume in 2019? I guess I hear things like, “They only look at it for five or ten seconds anyways.” So on the one hand, you need to spend a lot of time to make sure it’s polished. And on the other, people won’t look at it for more than a few seconds. So how do we wrap our minds about a resume?

Chris Wood: (14:54)
Resumes, although recruiters would love to get rid of a resume, it’s standard. It’s not going away. It’s what we’ve always done. But there’s ways to change that. You’re not just a piece of paper anymore. Websites like LinkedIn, [inaudible 00:15:08], you’re a human being, now it’s look at everything. Not just like, “Oh, what does this piece of paper say?” Because, there’s so many statistics, like 50%, 75%, whatever it may be, it’s all falsified. Most things on a resume aren’t falsified, they’re just embellished. More about what they did. If they touched it, they’re experts. I know, right?

John Chapman: (15:25)
Right.

Chris Wood: (15:25)
The resume, is short and sweet. My first career out of college, I was there 11 years. I did recruiting. I did sales, territory management. I trained recruiters. So I, technically, am qualified to be a recruiting manager, territory manager, account executive or a recruiter. But if I go to apply at SpaceX, and I want to be a recruiter there, I’m going to highlight the six years that I was a recruiter for Light Industrial in the warehouses, in the production, the machine shops

[crosstalk 00:15:52].

John Chapman: (15:52)
Got it. Got it.

Chris Wood: (15:52)
Short and sweet and cater to that specific area of time that you were good at it, focus in on that. That way it makes a match. It’s easier for me to go through.

John Chapman: (16:05)
Potentially multiple resumes, so that it’s just a little bit more tailored, rather than just your standard. You print off one resume and you had the same thing to ten different companies.

Chris Wood: (16:14)
Yes, that’s the biggest way not to get called by a recruiter or a company, because it’s not personable. You have to make it geared more towards what you’re applying for. Because most people do more than one job at-

John Chapman: (16:26)
Yeah, so how should somebody interact with a recruiter, let’s say, as opposed to doing it on their own or working with a recruiter? My initial thought is that I have actually never worked with a recruiter, so I can’t say… my perception of it is like you’re only doing that if you’re desperate or if you don’t know, or you don’t have a clear vision. But I’m sure that’s not the right way to think about it, so how should everybody think about working with a recruiter?

Chris Wood: (16:56)
I’m glad you brought that up. The number one thing I do today when I coach individuals who are currently looking for work, whether it’s passively or actively, is I explain to them the importance of always be building and developing your career pipeline. You shouldn’t be waiting until you need a job to be looking for one. You should be using some sort of dynamic, whether it’s a network, attending a network group or industry-type of event, or connecting with people on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a phenomenal opportunity for individuals. You build a network in their space that they work in and grow professionals and gain mentors and connect with recruiters, or people who are in their space, so they can see what’s going on.

Chris Wood: (17:36)
So do you have to work with a recruiter every time you’re looking for a role? No. I’d say the biggest reasons you’d want to is if you’re trying to break into a new space that you don’t have a network for, or it’s been a long time since you’ve been on the job market and to know what’s out there. We do have our hand on the pulse. But more so than not, most people don’t do an effective job while they’re actually working by passively building their career [crosstalk 00:17:58].

Chris Wood: (17:59)
If you’re looking to be, say you’re in a supervisor role, you want to be a manager or a director, you should find other companies that you’re interested in or other companies within the same industry and go connect on LinkedIn with those managers or those directors. Anyone who’d be your next supervisor or next boss. Because one, anytime anyone changes jobs, they put it on LinkedIn, you see the manager all of a sudden congratulate him or her as the new director, you can personally reach out and say, “Congratulations. Oh by the way, are you [inaudible 00:18:30] the management position?” And it’s a direct contact that you’ve never had. You’ve never had that visibility-

John Chapman: (18:35)
Fascinating. And that’s a huge light bulb and that’s super good perspective. I had never considered, especially for those in a corporate world that you’re doing two things at once. You’re working your nine to five job, or whatever, but then you’re also keeping a pulse on your future career path, whether or not it’s in the same industry or not. And I just never thought about utilizing LinkedIn in that way of looking at other either competitors or peer companies that you would want to work for. And specifically seeking out those people. So I think that’s super good feedback and I didn’t realize that it was necessarily being used… that LinkedIn was being used in that manner. Because there’s this sense of loyalty that may be old school, but there’s a sense of loyalty that if I’m in my nine to five job, I shouldn’t be then looking, because I don’t want to get distracted. So, I don’t know. Can you comment on the inner feeling of loyalty or lack of loyalty there that-

Chris Wood: (19:32)
Absolutely. [crosstalk 00:19:33]. That’s actually a very relevant topic. I’m glad you brought that up. Specifically the work force and the work place has changed drastically. A lot of it is funny. You know, years ago we heard, “Oh, the millennial or the millennial.” It had a negative connotation in the workforce, because there was all these… there’s new life in the industry and everyone fears change. So every industry, everyone’s graduating college, everyone’s coming out. And this is the post-recession, i.e. the school loan individual coming out trying to figure out and say, “You know what? I saw what happened. I don’t have trust in big corporation anymore. I, obviously, want to get development and training, but it’s important to me that there’s value to what I do.” And so, they’re going into corporations looking to say, “Hey, you know, what kind of value, what kind of experience, what kind of knowledge can I get from you guys. You know, I don’t know if I’ll be in 30 years, but I want to maximize what I get from you , as well as what I’m going to give to you, as well.”

Chris Wood: (20:26)
So I’d say that there is definitely a lack of trust with the corporation. Where back in the day, with our parents, they were more… they trusted the corporation, because that’s who they were loyal to and you felt you were loyal to them. But in a global economy, it’s not that way.

John Chapman: (20:41)
Yeah, that’s super interesting. I guess there’s still… so I still want to get to the low unemployment. But if we can, again, let’s just flip this so, you know, I’ve seen things especially, maybe more so, out of silicon valley and maybe they over-market this, but employers trying really hard to cater to millennials by having the ping pong table and the no dress code, so there’s so much changing from an HR perspective inside a company so that they can be cool and recruit people. So give me the scoop from a company from the HR perspective. What are they trying to do? Why are they trying to do that? And is it effective or not?

Chris Wood: (21:24)
So another good thing, and I’m glad you brought that up, is you know, years ago, in the same scenario when they were the Googles of the world were promoting ping pong and sleep pods and all the… it was essentially smoke and mirrors. You’re getting a job, it’s probably lower paying, college degree. You get to come to work with smoothies brought into your office. You get shuffle board, you get to play and you get to do yoga on Wednesday’s. [inaudible 00:21:50] doing is creating an atmosphere that’s fun, it’s exciting, which is not a bad thing, but if you look at it, you’re actually working longer hours than you would have before. Because [inaudible 00:21:58]it’s work and [inaudible 00:22:01] your computer again and do a few more emails. And so, it was really kind of sticky for awhile, and now it’s kind of changed and evolved. It’s not about ping pong and free lunches.

John Chapman: (22:11)
Okay.

Chris Wood: (22:12)
It’s more about the harmony they have with their personal goals. There’s a really cool company down in San Diego, it’s called [Burrs 00:22:18] They’re the ones that every time you talk or something, and Siri picks it up, all of a sudden you have an ad [inaudible 00:22:23]. How did they know I was talking about what I want to buy, you know that sort of thing?

John Chapman: (22:28)
Okay.

Chris Wood: (22:29)
Sponsored ads on social media. Well, where they’re stationed, they’re stationed in this little co-working space a walk from the beach. They have a gym on site, with trainers. They allow their employees to come in whenever they want. They can come in at 9:00 am, 7:00 am, stay as late as they want, leave when they want. They have a surfboard manufacturer and a mountain bike manufacturer on site. The mountain bike manufacture is allowing them to test the bikes out. The surfboard manufacturer is letting them use their surfboards during lunch. These individuals are coming to work at 9:00. They’re doing their work concentrated. Then they go to the gym. And they go grab a bike from the guy nextdoor, get a surfboard, ride at the beach, come back and they do their work the rest of the day. I mean, it’s like a phenomenal scenario, right? [inaudible 00:23:12] to work in that scenario. They’re accommodating individuals, because they realize rather than put all these restrictions and these meetings and these reports over and over again, let’s let them focus on what they’re good at.

Chris Wood: (23:22)
And so, if that means them taking a break in the middle of the day or starting later in the day and working later at night, they’ve accommodated that. It’s a pretty impressive situation. It’s more about lifestyle perks, as opposed to fun at the office.

John Chapman: (23:35)
Okay lifestyle perks, as opposed to fun at the office. Because you and I have chatted offline a little bit about the changing landscape for HR and lifestyle perks. So are there other companies, you don’t have to name them by name, but other things… what are some more examples of lifestyle perks?

Chris Wood: (23:52)
Number one thing that’s negotiated right now, which it goes with the current economy right now because employment’s so low, is remote work.

John Chapman: (24:01)
Remote work, yeah.

Chris Wood: (24:02)
Work from home on Friday or on Monday. They don’t want that commute. Or they want to do something where they can customize their work schedule around their family now. So maybe they come in later, because they want to spend their mornings with their kids and take them to school, and then they can come in, then they can leave earlier, but they get back on at night. A lot about customized schedules and what’s most important to the person that we’re hiring. Are we going to bring someone in here who’s really good at this? What if they have a special situation at home? What if they have a different type lifestyle? What if they don’t live in the city, but we need to hire them? Now can we do a telecommute? Can we bring them in once a month? It’s a lot of not just you live in Orange County, you work in Orange County. It’s you work for a tech company, do yo work with a future company that’s going to stay with the 21st Century? How are going to get new talent?

John Chapman: (24:48)
Yeah.

Chris Wood: (24:48)
The global economy.

John Chapman: (24:49)
So then a couple more questions before we try to wrap up. But we’ve referenced low unemployment, so what are the dynamics that are super different for either side of the equation now, either corporations or individuals. Is there one or two things that stand out? Is this generally a positive or, in fact, does it make it more difficult on each party? What’s your perspective then?

Chris Wood: (25:11)
This is the lowest unemployment that we’ve had in over 30 years. It’s below full employment. So there are more job openings than there are people to fill them. So for the job seeker, it’s their market. This is the time where if you want to make a jump, this is when you do it. You can be strategic about it. There’s a good chance because there are not enough people to do the roles, companies right now are finding it hard to attract talent and the talent they have, retaining them. So if you’re looking for a job, you have more flexibility on your negotiation. You want to negotiate a remote work day on Friday, if you want unlimited PTO or an extended week of PTO, or extra vacation or personal time. If you want more money, there’s a good chance you’ll be getting paid at an inflated rate right now in this current market place.

John Chapman: (25:54)
Super interesting.

John Chapman: (25:57)
Let’s say there’s a decent size, maybe not a Fortune 500, but if you’re thinking a small or medium sized company with head count, I’m not sure, maybe you can give me some numbers on this, but head count of more than 50, but less than 1000, or whatever it is. So a small to medium sized business and it’s an account manager role. Let’s just say there’s five account managers. Is HR really willing to have slightly different terms for each one of those different people, even though they’re serving a similar role?

Chris Wood: (26:26)
Changes by company. It depends. Is this company in high demand where everyone wants to work there? Is it like a Google or an Amazon or a SpaceX where there’s a line at the door for people to work there? Or is it a start-up that gives you an opportunity to grow? I’d say starting at a mid-sized right now, what they’ll do is they’re offering equity or they’re offering those lifestyle-type of perks. Not the old Google way, but the new lifestyle way.

John Chapman: (26:49)
Okay.

Chris Wood: (26:50)
If it’s a large corporation, it’s a good chance that they’ll probably end up paying you more money, but you may still have to work the long hours and have the old school work life scenario.

John Chapman: (26:59)
Okay. So with a couple more final questions and then we should wrap up. But is there anything else that we have yet to cover that would be helpful for people that are job seekers or potentially in the future thinking about their career? What else are you passionate about or you feel like we need to touch on before we end today?

Chris Wood: (27:18)
I firmly believe, and this is something I didn’t do as much earlier in my career, is I didn’t get to know my network of my industry as well as I do now. I sit on three boards for human resources for LA, Orange County and San Diego. I get to really understand what the pains of people in my industry are. And it really helps me just investing in myself. Anyone right now who’s either in the beginning or middle stages of their career path, make that extra effort to connect with more people in your industry, find a mentor and attend at least one industry event a quarter, because it always pays to get a different perspective. Because you only have the perspective of people in your current company, in your current personal network are. You need to get outside those networks and find new people.

John Chapman: (28:06)
Totally. I love that. So let’s just take another example, because you’ve been talking about that in your industry if you work in SAS or med tech or something like that, what you’re saying is go to the industry events that are above and beyond the calling of duty of just your nine to five job. And trying to network with other companies within that world. So give me another example of what this SAS or med tech guy would be doing above and beyond his normal job.

Chris Wood: (28:33)
Yeah, they’d be going to an event maybe at a… there’s a really great medical device group here in Orange County that every other month they have a social, which is more casual, it’s meeting people, take some time off of work to get to know everyone on a personal level. You meet CEOs, R&D managers, sales reps. You meet everyone in your space. You get to learn about companies that maybe you weren’t aware of. It’s more casual. It’s less stressful. It’s nice. But then, every other month, they host an event at a large employer, like Medtronic or Edwards Lifesciences or EndoLogic. And so, wow, I had been trying to get into EndoLogic for a year. Well, you can go to the event and guess what? Head of HR and the COO were there. So you can have direct contact with someone. I actually got to know them and bridge that gap of relationship, and maybe, if you see the open position, you can reach out to them directly. So now you’re really helping out your career path on that.

John Chapman: (29:26)
That’s awesome. Well, Chris, we’ve talked about a ton. I really appreciate your perspective for everybody and just in terms of ways that they’re thinking about the new economy, low unemployment, LinkedIn and stuff like that. So we’ll probably have to have you on again in the future. So, Chris, thanks so much for being here.

Chris Wood: (29:43)
Oh absolutely. I would love to come on again. Thank you so much.

John Chapman: (29:46)
Thanks.

Announcer: (29:47)
Thanks for tuning into the John Chapman show. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher or Spotify. We encourage your questions, comments and feedback. For additional information, check out the JohnChapmanshow.com or look for John on LinkedIn and Twitter. See you next week.